Not sure where I found this link- probably on Facebook, but is has been open on my computer for a few days as I have read the post, and thougght about it, and what I might want to say. If you are one of those gay folks who bristles at the very mention of Christianity, then skip following the links below and try and focus on what I have to say here. but if Christian isn’t a dirty word to you, I encourage you to read the linked post and spend time with it as I have, in addition to thinking about what I have to say on the matter.
Admittedly, when I first saw the post, I thought, OK, just more pseudo-Christian apologetics, but it isn’t really at all. So, two questions formed for me: Can Christians, “get” gay? Can they come to understand (for lack of another one word descriptor) homosexuality? And even if they can, does it really matter?
When I finally took several days to study this on my own in earnest, I got very angry, very angry about the lies I believed about gay people. I had believed what I had been too lazy to investigate for myself. You can start on my VERSES link, but nothing will substitute doing the Bible study for yourself.
Can Christians “get” gay?
There are two approaches often taken by the LGBT community in varying degrees of success. The first is the “we’re here, we’re queer, so get used to it” approach, and the other is the “if we educate them, they wil not hate us” approach. Frankly, I am a firm believer in both combined, especially when the first is considered being proud of being who you are at all times, and the latter is understoodf as being out of the closet at all times. The more people see us and get to know us, the harder it is for them to “other” us and people begin to respect and support us. On the other hand, should we ever have to ask for acceptance? Not really. Or Equality? Not really. Respect, fair treatment, safety in living; these are things we deserve from the getgo, and often, it is some call to Chritain beliefs that stands in the way of this. But posts, like the linked demonstrate that many Christians who put Faith, Christian practice, and real belief above fear mongering can move past the shallow hate-based homophobia, and begin to get that sexual orientation is just one aspect of being a human being, and both gay and straight are a good thing.
Some Christains often take another approach, and come to accept one person they know, but still remain convinced that Homosexuality/ Sexual Orientation other than heterosexuality is still a grave sin. In reality, this is hypocrisy or at the very least, lazy faith. The author here doesn’t demonstrate that at all. She beautifully unpacks all of the myths and looks beyond the lies and misinformation to find a bigger truth.
Does it really matter?
On the one hand, it is easy to decide that it is meaningless to worry if Christains come to accept the gays. We live in a democracy where there is separation of Church and State, right? Too bad if they don’t like it, right? But in reality, there is no separation and an underlying religious base is a part of all aspects of our culture including the government. In that sense, it matters big time. Not the far right fringe Christians, but the larger mass of everyday folks. These are the people who can be caught up in the lies and misinformation, or they can, like this author, see the real picture and look for facts, and real information.
The last thing I want to point out is the thoroughness of the blogger’s work! It matters bercause so few LGBT folks go to this extent to explain and confront the misinformation. Consider sections like this:
“The Dutch Marriage Study” was actually a study conducted to find out how HIV/AIDS was transmitted; it was not a “marriage study.” The control group consisted of only non-monogamous men under thirty who were involved in risky sexual behavior (they were solicited from an HIV/STD clinic). Furthermore, the test (1984-1996) was completed before the Netherlands even allowed same-sex marriage (2001). Every piece of propaganda written by conservative groups to discount the ability of gay people to enter into healthy, loving, monogamous relationships will cite the statistics from “The Dutch Marriage Study.” Good people with good intentions will even repeat these “facts” out of ignorance. Be assured though that not-so-good-people with less than honorable intentions publish these facts, knowingly.
Most LGBT writers would simply dismiss the lies and misinformation, but here, the author takes the time to dispel it, and point out the inaccuracies and lies. This is exactly what has to happen for so many Christians to come to decide to see beyond the hate mongering. If a queer blogger says these things, it may not be read seriously, but when a Christain says it, it is read and grasp differently by other Christians.
via Ten Things I’ve Learned About Gay People in Ten Years | A Christian Perspective |.
Please stop pathologizing intersexuality and please stop using biological determinism as a sole means of describing human desire and behavior. Intersexed people are another sex, not a syndrome or disease. Sexual orientation CAN be learned (why do you think so many people live straight lives for so long and come out later) and sexual orientation as well as gender is fluid and can change throughout one’s life without the need for head injury or biological change. You should know from your psychology classes (hell this is 101 shit) that all human behavior and so forth is from a combination of multiple things (genes, environment, etc) all interacting with each other.
Can you please cite where and who is “pathologizing intersexuality”? You are free to offer your opinions, but kindly stop telling others what they should do. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and if you want to demonstrate why their opinion is misguided or wrong, add references and links that bring more information to the dialogue.
I would say however, that I am not sure that gay people who come out later in life demonstrates that orientation can be learned. For many, their orientation was clear to them, and they simply buried it, hid it or battled it. For some others social norms and rigid ideas about choice may have prevented a person from coming to understand their orientation. In fact the inability of Gand L’s from truly becoming straight suggests that orientation can not be learned.
I’m interested in having more people talk about gender and fluidity. How are the notions of Gender, Sex, and Gender Roles connected, similar or different? Is Gender biological? Is Sex biological? Or are these social constructions?
This was meant as a reply to the Dr M person below, not you. Sorry about that. I don’t know how it ended up up there.
This was received as a comment but the Disqus system seems to have made it disappear. “Queerly” replied to my comment this:
This was meant as a reply to the Dr M person below, not you. Sorry about that. I don’t know how it ended up up there.
I would reply that my request is the same either way. The doctor (??) has as much right as the next person to offer their opinion, which s/he did.
I also want to add this from the Wikipedia. I would encourage anyone who disagrees to consider leaving a comment to share why they feel as they do. More dialogue leads to more learning and understanding.
Surgery is usually used on intersexed babies to give function to the genitals or a more usual appearance. The surgery usually makes the baby look female, as this is less complicated. When they become adults, some people agree with this surgery as made their life easier when they were a child. However some people do not agree as they may not identify with the gender the doctor chose for them. Some people who had surgery to make them look female have a male gender identity. Some people who had surgery to make them look male have a female gender identity. Some surgery may cause loss of sensation or cause pain when they have sex. Some of these intersexual people want doctors to stop doing surgery on intersexed babies. If a baby has an intersex condition that can come with either gender identity, some doctors now say they should not do surgery early. They say they should wait until the baby is older, then the child, adult or teenager can tell doctors his or her gender identity.
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexuality
As an authority on sexual orientation who has written articles and given public lectures internationally on the subject, sexuality is determined by the sexual centers in the ventral medial hypothalamus. All fetuses are female neurologically unless their is sufficient androgen (male hormones) present and useable. For example, XY, Androgen insensitive individuals have a blindly ending vagina and appear at birth as females to attending physicians, XO, Turner’s Syndrome, are highly feminized, and YO, lacking a second sex chromosome do not come to term. The Y chromosome is lethal and causes many problems such as learning disabilities, XYY+++++ are males who as a group are taller and more violent than normal as a group. Sexual orientation is not learned and can also be changed after birth by head injuries, tumors, and surgical interventions. Americans as a group are not aware of the literature on sexual orientation and are likely so illiterate they can’t as a group read the medical journals that present the facts. For a paper with over 450 references send an email to dr.murphy@att.net.
Thx for the comment. I’m not really sure how it directly relates to the post, but it is good info none the less.